Showing posts with label JF-17 Thunder. Show all posts
Showing posts with label JF-17 Thunder. Show all posts
Tuesday
Pakistan to arm JF-17 with Chinese missiles
Pakistan has confirmed it will buy Chinese missiles and flight systems to equip its 250 JF-17 Thunder jet fighters as it seeks to deepen military cooperation with Beijing, state media said Thursday.
Rao Qamar Suleman, Air Chief Marshal of the Pakistan Air Force, told the Global Times newspaper Chinese radar systems and SD-10 mid-range homing missiles would be used on the fighters co-developed by the two nations.
“PAF has no plans to install Western devices and weapons on the aircraft for the time being,” the newspaper quoted Suleman as saying.
Pakistan may also buy up to four Chinese surface-to-air missiles, as it seeks stronger cooperation with China to help upgrade its armed forces, Suleman told the China Daily in a separate interview.
He made the remarks on the sidelines of the annual Zhuhai Air Show now under way in southern China.
Chinese defence experts played down the comments, saying any cooperation did not target any country and did not compare with deals adopted during a visit to India this month by US President Barack Obama, the China Daily said.
Pakistan had initially planned on arming its JF-17 fighters with missiles made by French firm Thales SA in a deal reportedly worth 1.2 billion euros (1.6 billion dollars).
But French officials confirmed to AFP in April the deal had been put on hold without explanation. The French daily Le Monde reported that it was cancelled to avoid damaging relations with Pakistan’s nuclear rival India.
China is a strong ally of Pakistan and Islamabad draws heavily on Beijing for its defence and infrastructure needs.
Pakistan’s air force has a fleet of Chinese aircraft, including F-7PGs and A-5s, but also US-built F-16s and French Mirages. The medium-tech JF-17 or Thunder jets, manufactured jointly with China, are a recent addition.
Bangladesh Interested in JF-17
Source
JF-17 Information From Zuhai air show And PakDef
The poster on Pakdef known as Eagle Hannan is a Pakistani engineer who works in Nanjing, China. He speaks both Urdu and Chinese fluently. He is a serious military aviation enthusiast. The city he comes from in China, Nanjing, is also the home of two of the J-10 pilots from the PLAAF that participated in the Zhuhai Air Show, 2010. He stayed at the same hotel as the PAF pilots and had many conversations with them as well as the PLAAF pilots. . Hannan attended all three public holidays and spent all three days with pilots and senior officers. Hannan has managed to collect a large amount of information and media and these have been cleared by senior personnel from the PAF for public release.
What follows is a summary of Eagle Hannan's posts from Pakdef.
Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.
What follows is a summary of Eagle Hannan's posts from Pakdef.
Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.
In comparison, the JF-17s did much better. Hannan describes the Chinese crowd as going “wild” with the Thunder’s repeated tight turns, without a single one off-target from the venue.
In his conversations with the PAF, he has found out the following:
1. JF-17s will not have CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks).
2. The present batch of JF-17s has certain non-Chinese subsystems.
3. Air to Air missile tests for both WVR and BVR are complete.
4. PAF is impressed with the performance of SD-10s and confirms that the missile is comparable to the AMRAAM-Cs.
5. An improved SD-10s, designated here as SD-10Bs with improved range, seeker, new motor and better seeker has been tested in China on the FC-1. These missiles are marginally lighter than the first generation and are in the same standard as the best Western BVR AAMs.
The weight of the SD-10Bs still remains slightly greater than the AMRAAM Cs but this is not an issue anymore because the performance is equal or superior. The missiles displayed in Zhuhai were not the new generation SD-10Bs but the earlier model. PAF order for the SD-10Bs will be fulfilled before PLAAF. Previous models will be upgraded to the new SD-10B standard. [Author’s note: this may suggest that PAF have provided critical input for the SD-10Bs]
6. PAF will standardize to this SD-10Bs. First 50 will have PL-9Cs as standard WVR missiles.
7. A new radar will possibly be used in the Block II JF-17s and the first block will be upgraded. These are likely to be AESA radars with a swash-plate, similar to the Gripen NG.
8. JF-17 radars are designed to be fully multirole.
9. Various new guided munitions are being tested in China. These include SDBs (Small Diameter Bombs) ideal for the light fighter class.
10. PAF’s second squadron of JF-17s is almost ready and flight trials are earmarked for early next year.
11. China is confirmed (yet again and without any doubt whatsoever) to buy the FC-1s. Consequently, production is being expanded in Pakistan’s production facilities, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), to meet the demand. These facilities are located in Kamra.
12. Close cooperation on the J-10B is taking place. The level of cooperation has been significantly expanded since 2009. The size of the cooperation is described as literally a small city-like facility to accommodate PAF and Pakistani civilian engineers. Hannan confirmed that civilian engineers from PAC are also part of the cooperation in China.
13. The J-10B will have Chinese radar and western subsystems will allow it to be integrated with Erieye and Chinese AWACS. This is not an assumption and Eagle Hannan, who is a telecom engineer himself, confirms that this is not a technical problem and reconfirms from PAF. There is no problem as long as the protocol messages and handshake procedures are known. He found out that PAF has a solution in terms of the middleware.
14. The middleware will not only be via a C4I but also direct communication middleware. Some of these are being developed in-house and some are being imported.
15. Whether JF-17s can data link with Erieye has not been confirmed due to diplomatic/political reasons. However, Hannan notes that from his discussions, it is implicitly obvious that they definitely can.
16. IFR (In-Flight Refueling) will be installed in later batches. These will be fixed IFRs and not retractable. [Author’s note: radar signature and aerodynamics penalty paid for simplicity of construction, cost and maintenance]. The JF-17s were designed from the ground-up to have IFRs installed.
17. Next block of JF-17s will have IRST (Infra-Red Search & Track) similar to those installed on the J-10B.
18. Pakistani ALCM Raad and H2/H4 ASM will be integrated and was a major reason why Pakistan has chosen to go with Chinese radars for Block 2 JF-17s.
19. Advanced composites have been tested for use on the Block 2 JF-17s. Present JF-17s also use some composites. J-10B/FC-20 is designed from inception from new advanced composites. FC-20s in PAF service will form the top tier in the PAF (above the F-16 Block 52+).
20. PAF denied any collaboration in Chinese 5th generation fighter program as this is a capability they are not familiar with. PAF senior officials stated that:
We cannot help develop a capability we don’t know. Like we don’t know what kind of sensor suite is in F-22 other than what we find from open-source. Such capability/requirement generation is not Air Force job but such technology information is brought in by other means [Hannan notes: espionage or intelligence I think this is what he meant]. We all know F-22 is stealth but what else it can do is what we don’t know. JF-17s are developed because we knew what we wanted from a 4th generation fighter as we already had an experience with capability, either by existing systems or by our collaboration with other air forces. Even US Air force only comes to know new capabilities when it’s presented to it. Chinese on the other hand, have the means to bring such information and develop on such information and PAF does not. We'll see what they bring up.
Sunday
Pakistan To Build Radar For JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet
The chief of staff of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has told Jane's that Pakistan has built its first facility to manufacture radars for fighter aircraft.
Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said the indigenously produced radar, built with China's assistance at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), in Kamra, north of Islamabad, would equip the JF-17 'Thunder' fighter aircraft jointly produced by the two countries.
"This is a major step forward. This will be the first such [radar manufacturing] facility in Pakistan," ACM Suleman said in an interview on 21 December at PAF headquarters in Islamabad. He confirmed that the radar would be fitted on the JF-17, which, along with US-supplied F-16 Fighting Falcons, is set to be the PAF's front-line combat aircraft.
Previous reports suggest that the radar to be manufactured will be the Chinese-built CETC/NRIET KLJ-7 radar set.
At the 2010 Farnborough Air Show, at which two JF-17s made their debut in the West, Jane's reported that the KLJ-7 had received full marks from the JF-17's designers at PAC.
A PAC programme officer told Jane's : "I have flown with this radar and with other models that we have looked at fitting to this aircraft, such as the Thales RC400, and the Chinese radar is every bit as capable as its contemporary analogs."
Friday
JF-17 Fighter Aircraft Program Continues to Grow
“This is the project that can become a true flagship of the historic cooperation and strengthen the relationship between our two countries”. These were the words of Gilani as he addressed a gathering of Chinese and Pakistani technicians during his visitation to the JF-17 manufacturing facility at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.
He also expressed his satisfaction and pride of the successful progress of the JF-17 program and the fact that it is constantly completing milestones. The JF-17 project is definitely one of the biggest joint project going on between Pakistan and its strategic partner – China. Both governments expect that such cooperation will strengthen their time-tested relationship. Gilani said that every Pakistani is cherishing the help which China provides to the JF-17 program and a couple of other project. PM believes this project will write another glorious chapter in the history of the cooperation between the two countries.
Gilani wasn’t the only official visiting the factory, other names there were General Khalid Shameem Wynne, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee and Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Chief of the Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force were also visitors of the factory. They had the opportunity to witness the amazing progress which the JF=17 aircraft manufacturing program has achieved.
The JF-17 project is one of the most ambitious Pakistani programs and it has successfully complete many milestones. Thanks to this program, Pakistan can now proudly stand amongst the group of countries which manufacture modern combat aircraft.
The JF-17 is one of the most cost-effective, multi-role combat aircraft and it is specifically designed to meet the needs of the Pakistan Air Force.
The first batch is expected to be of 50 JF-17 Thunder aircraft which are to be equipped with the Chinese radar and SD-10 Beyond Visual Range Missile. Later batches are expected to be equipped with a more advanced radar.
The JF-17 military program is not the only program Pakistan-China cooperate on, other programs include F-22p Frigate and ZDK-03, which consists of Chinese AESA radar mounted on the Y-8F600 platform.
JF-17 a Sign of Pak-China Friendship...Now Using Pakistani Indigenous Computer Systems
Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani on Tuesday extended full support for the continuity of JF-17 Thunder aircraft programme, and said the project would prove as a flagship of Pak-China friendship.“This project can truly become as a flagship of our historic cooperation and strengthen our time-tested partnership,” the Prime Minister said while addressing a gathering of Pakistani and Chinese technicians during his visit to the JF-17 production facility at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex here. Gilani lauded the pace of JF-17 Thunder programme which had moved into a serial production stage in a record time.
He also acknowledged the role of Chinese experts for imparting technical know-how to the Pakistani technicians for the transfer of technology.
“The support provided by our Chinese friends in this, and in so many other common projects between Pakistan and China is greatly cherished by every Pakistani,” he said.
The Prime Minister termed the project a reflection of deeper bond between the two governments and the people.
“The success of the project would add another glorious chapter in our long history of cooperation,” he said.
Gilani went around different sections of the facility and expressed satisfaction that the project milestones were being accomplished in an efficient and timely manner.
He said Pakistan Airforce with a initiative like JF-17 program was not only rendering valuable services for strengthening the national defence but also providing a valuable opportunity to the youth.
“It is an opportunity involving a more constructive and positive approach to life that offers education, livelihood and training and leading to a better life,” he said.
Gilani exhorted all the personnel associated with the project to commit all “faculties of body and soul” for its success.
He expressed hope that with Allah’s blessing and commitment, many more laurels shall come in shape of timely completion of projects.
Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Suleman Qamar said with the support of the government, twenty two JF-17 aircrafts had been inducted into the 26th squadron of the PAF, while eight others were in various stages of tests and trials. He said the aircraft, whose production began on 13 June 2009 and the first made-in-Pakistan rolled out on 23rd Nov 2009, has successfully made its presence felt at the air shows at Farnborough, UK and Zhuhai, China. He said the aircraft also participated in the Highmark and the Azm-e-nau exercises.
He said a number of air forces around the world were eyeing the new entrant into the arena with keen interest.
The Air Chief presented to the Prime Minister a gift of a statue of an Air Force pilot - a symbol of determination to succeed despite all odds. Earlier the Prime Minister was apprised that Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra was now providing three major computer systems for the JF-17 aircraft.
These include Weapon Mission Management Computer, Electro-Mechanical Management Computer and Light Warning Computer.
The PAC was currently producing three aircraft a month and with a larger facility will be able to increase production and enable Pakistan earn a handsome foreign exchange.
Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Khalid Shamim Wyne, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar, Health Minister Makhdoom Shahabuddin and Finance Minister Abdul Hafeez Sheikh also accompanied the Prime Minister.
JF-17 Fighter Aircraft Program Continues to Grow
“This is the project that can become a true flagship of the historic cooperation and strengthen the relationship between our two countries”. These were the words of Gilani as he addressed a gathering of Chinese and Pakistani technicians during his visitation to the JF-17 manufacturing facility at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.
He also expressed his satisfaction and pride of the successful progress of the JF-17 program and the fact that it is constantly completing milestones. The JF-17 project is definitely one of the biggest joint project going on between Pakistan and its strategic partner – China. Both governments expect that such cooperation will strengthen their time-tested relationship. Gilani said that every Pakistani is cherishing the help which China provides to the JF-17 program and a couple of other project. PM believes this project will write another glorious chapter in the history of the cooperation between the two countries.
Gilani wasn’t the only official visiting the factory, other names there were General Khalid Shameem Wynne, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee and Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Chief of the Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force were also visitors of the factory. They had the opportunity to witness the amazing progress which the JF=17 aircraft manufacturing program has achieved.
The JF-17 project is one of the most ambitious Pakistani programs and it has successfully complete many milestones. Thanks to this program, Pakistan can now proudly stand amongst the group of countries which manufacture modern combat aircraft.
The JF-17 is one of the most cost-effective, multi-role combat aircraft and it is specifically designed to meet the needs of the Pakistan Air Force.
The first batch is expected to be of 50 JF-17 Thunder aircraft which are to be equipped with the Chinese radar and SD-10 Beyond Visual Range Missile. Later batches are expected to be equipped with a more advanced radar.
The JF-17 military program is not the only program Pakistan-China cooperate on, other programs include F-22p Frigate and ZDK-03, which consists of Chinese AESA radar mounted on the Y-8F600 platform.
Thursday
Pakistan Air Force Chief Outlines Modernization Plans
Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleman announced the purchase while attending an air chiefs’ conference. Rao was asked how many aircraft does Pakistan want and he declined to specify a number, but said that all purchases are still in the negotiating stage and nothing is sure.
During 2006 the U.S. Congress agreed on giving Pakistan 28 F-16C/Ds under an excess defence articles scheme. Recently, Pakistan received the first 14 of 28 and according to Rao there is no information when these aircraft will arrive.
At the moment Pakistan’s Air force has a total of 63 F-16/S (45 A/Bs and 18 C/Ds). All of the A/Bs are scheduled to go through a midlife upgrade in order to become C/D aircraft. At the moment the first three of all A/Bs are undergoing the upgrade at Turkish Aero Space Industries (TAI). Rao expects that all of the aircraft will be upgraded by 2013/14. Rao added that four other F-16s were sent to the U.S for technical verification in order to develop the upgrade kits for TAI.
Pakistan is allied not only with the U.S, but also with China which allows them to produce JF-17 fighters at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra. The fighters are jointly developed by Pakistan and China.
Rao stated that since he became chief of air staff, he has put a lot of efforts in increasing Pakistan’s manufacturing capability of defensive installations. This is very important for the country’s future, because it will allow it to become independent of the sanctions and embargoes which U.S has set on it.
The 2nd squadron of JF-17s will become flyable by the end of the March and will simultaneously phase out all Nanchang A-5s ground attack aircraft which Pakistan bought from China.
According to Rao, The Chengdu F-7s and Dassault Mirages will also be replaced by the JF-17s due to the fact that these planes have aged way too much to be safe to fly and in the same time usable in modern warfare. Rao was also asked about the datalinks which will connect F-16s and JF-17s. He responded that Pakistan is working on developing its own solution for this problem. The datalink will be able to send information from the JF-17 to a ground station and from there via special interface the information will be transferred to the F-16s.
Pakistan doesn’t only have various fighter types, but also different models of early warning and control aircraft. At the moment the country has three Saab Erieye aircraft and is expected to receive a fourth one by the mid of 2011. The first Shaanxi ZDK-03 is expected to arrive in the same time. Pakistan has ordered a total of four of these aircraft. Pakistan also has major requirements for its UAVs. The Italian Selex Galileo Falco UAV are currently being used in Pakistan and the government has agreed with the company to manufacture some UAVs in Pakistan which will allow them to export them through the local market. The production of these aircraft is expected to being in 2011.
Wednesday
Pakistan Air Force Forges Ahead With New Fighters And Upgrades
Pakistan has inducted its new Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 52+ fighters, while its first two full-strength squadrons of Chengdu/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17 Thunders are also on the verge of becoming fully operational.
The Pakistan air force inducted 17 F-16 Block 52+ fighters into its 5 Sqn on 11 March, the service says. The final aircraft in the 18-unit deal is still in the USA undergoing testing and will arrive in another month.
Pakistan's new batch of aircraft comprises 12 single-seat C-model versions and six two-seat F-16Ds. The air force says it is also in negotiations with the USA for additional Block 52+ aircraft, with its original deal having contained an option for another 18.
Pakistan's new F-16s are powered by Pratt & Whitney F100-229 engines, with other systems understood to include Northrop Grumman's mechanically scanned APG-68(V)9 radar and ITT's ALQ-211(V)9 advanced integrated defensive electronic warfare suite.
A proposed weapons package outlined by the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency in 2006 included 500 Raytheon AIM-120C5 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles and 200 short-range AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinders, plus 500 Boeing joint direct attack munitions, 1,600 enhanced GBU-12/24 laser-guided bombs and 700 BLU-109 penetrator bombs.
A mid-life upgrade of 34 F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft is also under way, with some being upgraded in Turkey. The project is likely to be completed next year, and will see the aircraft equipped with modern sensors and weapons.
Meanwhile, Pakistan's first full-strength squadron of 18 JF-17s is likely to become operational next month, with a second unit of the same strength likely to follow within two months.
At Air Show China in Zhuhai last November, Zeng Wen, vice-president of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), said Pakistan had 50 firm orders for the JF-17, but could end up buying 200.
Pakistan will use the JF-17 to replace a number of types, such as the Chengdu F-7, Dassault Mirage III and Mirage 5 and the Nanchang A-5. All A-5s will be decommissioned by early April, says the Pakistan air force.
China and Pakistan jointly developed the JF-17. Pakistan began indigenous assembly in 2009, and could incorporate Western avionics, radars and other systems into the type from 2012.
Friday
Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder
Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India’s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.
China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.
Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.
The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.
So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s. In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.
China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.
Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.
The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.
So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s. In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.
China To Supply 50 JF-17 Thunders to Pakistan on Emergency Basis
BEIJING: Pakistan hopes to take delivery within the next six months of 50 JF-17 fighter jets manufactured jointly with China, Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar said on Friday during a visit to Beijing.
Mukhtar made the comments on the sidelines of a meeting between Chinese President Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani.“We think there is a good deal,” said Mukhtar, who put the price of each JF-17, or Thunder, aircraft at $20-25 million “as compared to $80 million for the F16”, a US-built jet also used by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).
Mukhtar did not explicitly state whether the deal had been finalised, but it appeared that the agreement was nearing completion.
Further details of the deal were not made public but the agreement was apparently discussed during the visit by Gilani.
Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal originally quoted an unnamed high-ranking PAF spokesman, in Beijing with Gilani, as saying the jointly developed JF-17 jets would be in addition to another batch of the same aircraft that is currently being assembled in Pakistan.
China is one of Pakistan’s largest aircraft providers. The PAF has a fleet of Chinese aircraft, including F-7PGs and A-5s. The JF-17 “Thunder” programme dates back to 1999 and is aimed at reducing Pakistan’s dependence on Western companies for advanced fighters.
The jets are a single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft, which Mukhtar said are being jointly produced between China and Pakistan.
“There was a loan given for starting the manufacturing of this because the Chinese will also buy these aircraft,” he said on Chinese financing for the order.
The Pakistani Air Force has ordered 150 “Thunders”, which it may increase to 250. The 50 mentioned in the report are likely part of the larger order. In February 2010, Pakistan fielded its first JF-17 squadron with 14 aircraft.
“We will get these planes in weeks,” he said, adding that a formal agreement to that effect was likely to be signed on Thursday.
The official said Pakistan and China were already jointly producing the JF-17 aircraft, but these 50 planes would be equipped with more sophisticated avionics. He said the war planes to be fully funded by China would help bolster Pakistan’s defence and add to tactical capability of its air force.
APP adds: Ambassador to China Masood Ahmed Khan said China would provide over $400 million to Pakistan, including $100 million in soft credit and a grant of 70 million RMB, for the post-flood reconstruction and development projects.
JF-17 Thunder--FC-1 Project A Flagship of China-Pakistan Friendship
The FC-1 Xiaolong fighter jets, which are jointly developed by China and Pakistan, are seen by many as a symbol of the China-Pakistan friendship.
CRI reporters have visited the assembly plant in Pakistan where the jets are being produced and had a firsthand look at the joint project.
The FC-1 Xiaolong fighter jets are known as GF-17 Thunder in Pakistan.
They are assembled at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, or PAC in Kamra, the world's seventh largest fighter jets assembly plant.
Air Vice Marshal Arshad Khan is the Managing Director of Kamra Avionics & Radar Factory at the PAC.
He says the success of this project lays in the willingness of Chinese original equipment manufacturer to transfer its know-how to the Pakistani side.
"When we talk about the technology transfer, it is a model that the Chinese are helping us, transfer the Know-how that they have and to reduce the cost and have a real participation. So it is a good flexibility to help us to develop our aviation industry and benefit from the previous existing development project."
He says Pakistan hopes the technology transfer will be completed by next year.
35 Chinese engineers are in the PAC to train Pakistani workers and providing technical assistance.
Gao Yan is the Chief Representative in Pakistan from China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporatioin.
"The process of the production of FC-1 Xiaolong fighter is smooth, though there are still some small problems, Pakistani workers can manage the skills and learned very fast. It is not easy for a country without aeronautics infrastructures to build planes, however under the collaboration between experts and companies from both countries, we overcame difficulties and the current production is good. "
Meanwhile, local media reported that Pakistan hopes to receive 50 more Xiaolong fighter jets within the next six months.
The Kamra Aeronautical Complex says the new deal is part of the program to replace the old equipment.
Air Commodore Nudrat Kazmi is the Managing Director of Aircraft Manufacturing Factory in PAC.
"Basically, the new deal has been signed because of the requirements which has been generated by the Pakistan Air Force. The Pakistan air force has gone through a transition period, which the old equipment are being phased out and new equipment are being inducted. This fifty craft are part of that transitional phase. And therefore, it is part of that particular program."
The Pakistan Air Force officially inducted its first FC-1 Xiaolong squadron last year.
CRI reporters have visited the assembly plant in Pakistan where the jets are being produced and had a firsthand look at the joint project.
The FC-1 Xiaolong fighter jets are known as GF-17 Thunder in Pakistan.
They are assembled at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, or PAC in Kamra, the world's seventh largest fighter jets assembly plant.
Air Vice Marshal Arshad Khan is the Managing Director of Kamra Avionics & Radar Factory at the PAC.
He says the success of this project lays in the willingness of Chinese original equipment manufacturer to transfer its know-how to the Pakistani side.
"When we talk about the technology transfer, it is a model that the Chinese are helping us, transfer the Know-how that they have and to reduce the cost and have a real participation. So it is a good flexibility to help us to develop our aviation industry and benefit from the previous existing development project."
He says Pakistan hopes the technology transfer will be completed by next year.
35 Chinese engineers are in the PAC to train Pakistani workers and providing technical assistance.
Gao Yan is the Chief Representative in Pakistan from China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporatioin.
"The process of the production of FC-1 Xiaolong fighter is smooth, though there are still some small problems, Pakistani workers can manage the skills and learned very fast. It is not easy for a country without aeronautics infrastructures to build planes, however under the collaboration between experts and companies from both countries, we overcame difficulties and the current production is good. "
Meanwhile, local media reported that Pakistan hopes to receive 50 more Xiaolong fighter jets within the next six months.
The Kamra Aeronautical Complex says the new deal is part of the program to replace the old equipment.
Air Commodore Nudrat Kazmi is the Managing Director of Aircraft Manufacturing Factory in PAC.
"Basically, the new deal has been signed because of the requirements which has been generated by the Pakistan Air Force. The Pakistan air force has gone through a transition period, which the old equipment are being phased out and new equipment are being inducted. This fifty craft are part of that transitional phase. And therefore, it is part of that particular program."
The Pakistan Air Force officially inducted its first FC-1 Xiaolong squadron last year.
JF-17 Will Appear In The Skies At Dubai Air Show
CATIC is no newcomer to Le Bourget. It first came to Paris in 1987, and 2011 marks its twelfth appearance at the show.
Ma said CATIC had planned to have three Pakistani air force JF-17s in Paris to appear in the static area and perform flying displays. The service is the only current operator of the type. He attributed their absence to the unstable political situation in Pakistan.
However, Ma is confident that the JF-17 will appear at Dubai air show, which runs from 13-17 November.
Citing strong interest in the JF-17 from countries in Africa and the Middle East, he said several countries have had test flights of the low-cost aircraft. A new international buyer for the type is likely to be announced within the next two to three years.
CATIC has, meanwhile, done particularly well with its helicopters. Within the past five years it has signed 30 international contracts for military transport helicopters. Mainly these are light types such as the AC311, but the firm is seeing interest in its large AC313, which has a maximum take-off weight of 13,000kg (28,630lb). Ma said the AC313 has proven effective at operating in high altitudes up to 18,000ft (5,500m), and has received interest from Asian countries.
Separately, deliveries of eight Shaanxi Y-8 transport aircraft to Venezuela will start in 2012 following its signature of a 2010 deal with CATIC.
Thursday
An Update on JF-17 Block II
The JF-17 Block II is believed to have AESA radars similar to those observed on the J-10B. The integrated avionics, sensors and EW suite is entirely Chinese and is believed to be at the level of Europes best planes. The AESA radar is a slightly smaller version of the one being utilized for the J-10B. The radar is highly sophisticated and its installation is beyond the present capacity at PAC Kamra and will thus require the aircraft to take a trip to Nanjing, China.The Block II will be the standard version to be used in the PAF with the older Block Is to be retired after the end of production for the first 150 aircraft. This suggests that the structural changes needed to convert the Block Is to Block II standard are significant, suggesting considerable changes to the revised edition. The following are believed to be some of the key changes:
1. AESA radar
2. Comprehensive upgrades for low RCS profile including cockpit glass, RAM paint, refined structure, completely new nose structure for AESA, significant increase in the use of composites and retractable refueling probe.
3. Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.
4. The BVR missile is the SD-10B which has been found more than a match for the AMRAAM-120 C5s. An unknown Meteor class missile is in the works beyond the SD-10Bs.
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